Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

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Blair N. Cummings
Posts: 1123
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:14 pm

Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by Blair N. Cummings »

Okay, Tony Hatch made it, but read the following and just ask yourself WTF?!

Aerosmith and Foreigner Songwriters to Join Hall of Fame
By JAMES C. MCKINLEY JR.
The Songwriters Hall of Fame will honor members of Foreigner and Aerosmith during the 2013 induction ceremony to be held in New York this summer.

Joe Perry and Steven Tyler of Aerosmith, and Mick Jones and Lou Gramm of Foreigner are among seven songwriters being named to the hall at a gala dinner on June 13. The others are J.D. Souther, who co-wrote several Eagles hits like “Heartache Tonight” and “New Kid in Town”; Holly Knight, the songwriter behind Pat Benatar’s “Love Is a Battlefield”; and Tony Hatch, perhaps best known for the Petula Clark hits “Downtown” and “My Love.”

Mr. Jones and Mr. Gramm, of Foreigner, created some of the best-known anthems of 1970s and 1980s rock, among them “I Want to Know What Love Is,” “Feels Like the First Time” and “Cold as Ice.”

Aerosmith’s duo of Mr. Perry and Mr. Tyler also wrote several hits that have become staples of classic rock stations, including “Walk This Way” and “Same Old Song and Dance.” Mr. Tyler also wrote the Aerosmith hit “Dream On” alone.
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I was going to rant at length but I`m old and tired.
blueonblue
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:22 am

Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by blueonblue »

They forgot to mention this one, quite possibly the closest any composer as come to
emulating "The Bacharach Sound"......


"blue"
gillanddon
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:54 am

Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by gillanddon »

Hello Blair! I havn't even heard of some of the songs mentioned by Aerosmith and Foreigner song writers ... what is the selection panel on????

Hey blueonblue! .. who wrote that Jackie Trent song? Was it Tony Hatch? It's outright robbery. Things like this must have really upset Burt big time.
Blair N. Cummings
Posts: 1123
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:14 pm

Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by Blair N. Cummings »

Gillanddon, I`ve done, at one time or another, every consciousness-altering substance there is; not one could have persuaded me to enjoy a single Foreigner or Aerowsmith "song." These, unfortunately, were inescapable here in the colonies.
My long-standing point is that rock and roll is/was about performance, not composition. A song should be able to accommodate any competent interpretation if it`s melodic, literate, and well-crafted. Only bar-bands and wannabes cover rock material.
Incidentally, I`m glad we agree on something at last!
blueonblue
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:22 am

Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by blueonblue »

Gill,
Tony Hatch and Jackie Trent wrote "Where Are You Now" but I'm sorry to disagree with you, I think Burt would have been very flattered !

"blue"
gillanddon
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:54 am

Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by gillanddon »

Hello Blair ... hey! Surely I've agreed with a lot of your expert opinion over the years?! Yes the good old HOF .. it's too much eh? It's the lack of good 'melody' that I'm currently missing in a lot . Even, dare I say it, in say someone like Adele's songs .. I find her vocals can be a bit abrasive and so are some of the tunes.
Last edited by gillanddon on Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
gillanddon
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Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by gillanddon »

Hi blueonblue .. In that case he must be a greater man than I! I would have been chewed up with bitterness. I would have bet my life on that song being one of his compositions.
An Enormous BB Fan
Posts: 1194
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:14 pm

Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by An Enormous BB Fan »

People were trying to compose like Burt. They wanted what he had. He didn't want what they had. I have a feeling that if he heard a song that we think sounds like Burt wrote it, he wouldn't agree. He's the musical genius. He didn't have to be jealous of anyone. And I find it hard to believe that he ever was. Besides, none of these songs even come close to Burt's best songs. Did Tiger Woods really give a damn if anyone copied his swing?
gillanddon
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:54 am

Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by gillanddon »

Sorry! That song was almost a replica of his sound! Dionne said that a lot of British artists pinched her voice in the 60's .. Cilla Black, Sandie Shaw etc .. word for word .. same for Burt .. they must have got pissed off .. dont kid yourself. Dionne said the 'British' had no respect .. they just invaded the sound that was coming out of the USA .. even the Stones hijacked the entire Chuck Berry catalogue.
BachtoBacharach
Posts: 530
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Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by BachtoBacharach »

Well by gum if Dionne says it, it must be so! Give it a break. Tony Hatch was no more a Bacharach copycat than you or I. Bacharach was influenced by so many and if you listen to Jobim and others, who were writing things Bacharach was profoundly influenced by, you can bank on it that there are similarities. Was Bacharach a copycat? Heck no. Tony Hatch was writing great songs such as Downtown and many others that are his own and influenced by many. Songwriters don't operate in a vacuum and neither do singers. This is such a ridiculous argument. Dionne has a chip on her shoulder about Anyone Who Had a Heart and has never gotten over it and has been a real beyatch to Cilla Black FOREVER...get over it Dionne and Dionne fanatics (I say this with tongue in cheek as Dionne has been perpetuating this imaginary feud between she and Cilla as it keeps her in the headlines or used to)! Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery (and Dionne said that about her friend Dusty Springfield who really did emulate Dionne and made no bones about it). Why this jealousy, drama and anger over things which ONLY Burt and Dionne truly know how they feel about this topic. Where Are You Now was written in 1964 and recorded in 1965 for an English television show and is a gorgeous piece of songwriting. Burt was just starting to hit in England at that time and he had written nothing that sounded even close to Where Are You Now until much later. Some might say that Mr. Bacharach copied Mr. Hatch...not me but I am not going to say that it's obvious that Hatch copped Bacharach because it's not.
Last edited by BachtoBacharach on Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BachtoBacharach
Posts: 530
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Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by BachtoBacharach »

And by the way, hijacking an artist's catalog is something that happened in the US of A frequently. Do Mr. Fats Domino and Mr. Pat Boone come to mind? The practice was common in the music industry in the 50s and 60s and not limited to GB. On the surface, it seems rather benign but in the USA in the 1950s, it had racist overtones. Black artists were frequently exploited and that trend continued for years. Aretha Franklin, if we are to follow the theory here, hijacked Dionne's I Say A Little Prayer...up until about 15 years ago, you hardly would hear Aretha's version on US radio...Dionne's was the most well remembered and the most played on radio and charted in the top five. Point? It happens all the time. Boy, again if we follow the theory here, Dionne must be eaten alive with anger for being one of the most emulated pop singers of the 20th century. Not!
Last edited by BachtoBacharach on Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ron hertel
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Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by ron hertel »

Wasn't Dionne the 53rd artist to record "Alfie"? ....... I'm glad she did - the best recording is always the WINNER! .......... I think it would have been a wise choice for Dionne to have "hijacked" some more of Burt's compositions that she never recorded (or at least were never released) for her most recent project - "NOW" - instead of revisiting and re-recording the 8 songs she originally recorded the 60's and 70's in an attempt to "bring them into the 21st Century" (What's that all about?) .......... Those 8 songs along with all of her other incomparable recordings in their original form will be relevant thru the 21st Century and beyond. ............ The 2 Bacharach and 2 David recordings on the "NOW" CD are very good. ........ The remaining choices for that project should have been "hijacked" from the likes of the Elvis Costello/Bacharach collaboration "Painted From Memory" and Bacharach's "At This Time" as well as Bacharach songs which were first recorded by Stephanie Mills, Aretha Franklin, Patti LaBelle and others.
An Enormous BB Fan
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:14 pm

Re: Further Degradation of the Songwriters HOF

Post by An Enormous BB Fan »

BachtoBacharach wrote:Well by gum if Dionne says it, it must be so! Give it a break. Tony Hatch was no more a Bacharach copycat than you or I. Bacharach was influenced by so many and if you listen to Jobim and others, who were writing things Bacharach was profoundly influenced by, you can bank on it that there are similarities. Was Bacharach a copycat? Heck no. Tony Hatch was writing great songs such as Downtown and many others that are his own and influenced by many. Songwriters don't operate in a vacuum and neither do singers. This is such a ridiculous argument. Dionne has a chip on her shoulder about Anyone Who Had a Heart and has never gotten over it and has been a real beyatch to Cilla Black FOREVER...get over it Dionne and Dionne fanatics (I say this with tongue in cheek as Dionne has been perpetuating this imaginary feud between she and Cilla as it keeps her in the headlines or used to)! Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery (and Dionne said that about her friend Dusty Springfield who really did emulate Dionne and made no bones about it). Why this jealousy, drama and anger over things which ONLY Burt and Dionne truly know how they feel about this topic. Where Are You Now was written in 1964 and recorded in 1965 for an English television show and is a gorgeous piece of songwriting. Burt was just starting to hit in England at that time and he had written nothing that sounded even close to Where Are You Now until much later. Some might say that Mr. Bacharach copied Mr. Hatch...not me but I am not going to say that it's obvious that Hatch copped Bacharach because it's not.
So very very true, B2B! How can any composer own a "sound?" Does that mean that only Scott Joplin was allowed to compose rags and should have been furious that anyone else would compose a rag? Besides, in all the interviews and all the reading that I've done on Burt, I've never ONCE seen him mention that other songwriters have "stolen" his sound. Even if he did, it's absurd. And regarding Cilla: Quite frankly, I see no comparison between Cilla and Dionne. Two different singers entirely. If they are similar singers, then why can I listen to Dionne for days on end, but I can't listen to Cilla for more than 5 minutes? You're right B2B: Dionne never got over the fact that Cilla sang some of Burt and Hal's songs. And this is from the greatest singer of Burt and Hal's songs! At any rate, Burt didn't need to own his sound. No one can really copy it anyhow. It would be like Shakespeare worrying that anyone else could come up with a Shakespearean play. Can't be done!
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