Burt`s book

[Sara D]

A friend of mine in the States tells me that the book reads like the work of a celebrity who just happens to be a remarkable composer rather than the other way round, something that those extracts from the Daily Mail's website do nothing to contradict. Like Martin I can happily wait until June for the UK publication.

[BachtoBacharach]

I was sorely disappointed with the book simply because there was really no depth regarding the songs themselves and the dynamic in the studio when the tunes were recorded. No real backstory about the creative process and how Dionne fit into all that. Considering that Dionne was so important to Burt, he spent little time on her. Little about how the interaction between Burt and Dionne went; I know when presented with some of the tunes, Dionne balked at recording them. I remember a tense moment in the recording studio regarding Burt and Dionne when Burt was discussing Karen Carpenter and her version of "Close to You" and Dionne was peeved that Burt was going on and on about Karen and her voice. And when I say on and on, I am not exaggerating...it was a little insensitive of Burt when Dionne's "Paper Mache" was underservedly dying in the 40s on the Hot 100 while Karen's "Close to You: was at # 1. Dionne finally remarked that perhaps Burt needed to get Karen in to this recording session. Dionne could be sensitive but Burt could also keep both his feet in his mouth, too. There were times when Dionne was indifferent to a great tune and some of the time, Burt just said to hell with it and offered it to someone else amd those resulted in some interesting conversations. This happened with "WTWNN" and others. Also, I find it interesting that both the late, great Phil Ramone and Burt claim "Do You Know the Way to San Jose" was recorded at A & R although that session was recorded at Bell Sound and Ed Smith engineered it. I know personally that for that session, A & R was booked and for a brief second, they thought about trying Scepter's studio on W54th but Burt hated that studio but they were able to book Bell. And in the line notes for "The Look of Love-Burt Bacharach" box set the extensive liner notes are correct in attribuing that recording to Ed Smith and those liner notes were accurately researched by I believe Alec Cumming. I don't think there was much verification and research for Burt's book that was done. I really recommend to all Serene Dominic's fine tome, Bacharach Song by Song...it's fantastic if you are wanting the backstory on those tunes. I was hoping that this book would rekindle in a whole new way the fire that these recordings are. Let's hope that PBS special next month will catch fire and do what the book didn't. I have been a small part of a lot of this music since 1963 and every day, I find something new to marvel at in these recordings; I have never grown tired of these recordings. No one will really remember Dionne for her post 1970s recordings 100 years from now and I hardly listen to any of those any longer except a scant handful but that work from 1962 through 1972 that she, Burt and Hal did together will be remembered long after we are all gone...it's that seminal...that's Dionne's legacy and Burt and Hal's too.

[Blair N. Cummings]

I agree. I`m glad I only paid half-price at the Strand for it. It barely held my attention at LaGuardia and the flight back.
My only disagreement is with your expectation that a PBS greatest hits clips fest will be any more rewarding.
There`s surely a rich narrative to be told about this ineffably significant triumvirate and their timeless work, but it awaits a legitimate narrator.
I won`t even speculate as to your identity, BtoB, but surely you could deliver a far more rewarding account than any we`ve been given to date and (alas) are otherwise likely to see in our dwindling lifetimes.

[An Enormous BB Fan]

Thanks for the input, B2B. Sorry to hear that there is no depth in the book regarding the songs/creative process/the recording sessions/Dionne's involvement, etc. etc. I'm sure that if a true biographer, say on the level of a Robert Caro, were doing the book, we would get all of this information.

If Dionne didn't want to record a tune, then I don't blame Burt at all for giving it to someone else. I mean, why should he have had to beg anyone to record one of his and Hal's songs? I wonder how much arm-twisting Burt had to do to get Dionne to sing San Jose -- considering how much she hated the song. Well, I'm glad that Dionne did it and not anyone else. That song has a very special place in my heart and it may be my #1 song of all time.

When Burt went on and on about Karen's voice, I wonder if Dionne was afraid that Burt would switch his allegiance from Dionne to Karen? Could Dionne have been that insecure about her place in Burt and Hal's world? I can't imagine that Burt and Hal would have even considered giving up Dionne for anyone else in the world. Burt certainly couldn't have held Paper Mache's popularity against Dionne. That was a true work of art and Burt, of all people, knew that no one could predict a song's success. The Carpenter's version of "Close To You" was a phenomenon -- never to be repeated again. You couldn't listen to any pop station for more than 20 minutes without hearing it. But Dionne was having hit after hit with Burt and Hal. She was gold to them and she should have known it. Burt's bragging on Karen's voice should not have caused Dionne any jealousy -- is how I see it. "Tempermental artists", I guess.

Interesting that they mixed up where San Jose was recorded. That's pretty bad research, I should think, on Burt's co-writer's part. Very sloppy, indeed. Also sloppy to have skipped "After The Fox." I suppose most people (like 99.99999%) don't give a care. But fans like me do, I guess. The deal is that these are popular biographies and I suppose they just want to cater to the least common denominator. In-depth research, I suppose, just isn't their bag.

I'm confused about something: For San Jose, if Ed Smith engineered the session, then who put the wallet on the bass drum? Was it still Ramone?

I do agree with what you say about the BB/HD/DW output from '62-'72. Nothing like it.

And, Blair, I agree totally that the PBS Show will be a gloss over. It'll be fun to go down memory lane, but that's all we'll get. Our "problem", if you want to call it that, is that we have followed Burt for all these years, and have read so many different articles. We've heard Burt interviewed on so many different occasions. Greater insight we won't be getting.

[BachtoBacharach]

I liken Dionne's reaction to, I feel, Burt's ad nauseum chatter about Karen Carpenter this way: when you are making love to your wife, you don't drone on and on excessively about your mistress. He was in the studio to record Dionne and anything other than some passing chatter about Close to You (which by the way, Dionne loved) by Burt was certainly appropriate; it was the overkill on the discussion that got to her. She was good natured but pointed about it all but you could tell that she was ready to record and get through the session and felt his attention should be focused on the session. It's only the overkill that provoked that iciness from her. For a ladies man like Burt, he really doesn't seem to know women well, does he! DIonne's response to certain tunes is understandable but sometimes her reaction afterward was somewhat bitchy and that is understandable as well. Dionne WAS possessive of Burt and his tunes and that part of the book I have no dispute with. I don't think Dionne was ever afraid that Burt would switch simply because although Burt loved Close to You (really the success of the version by the Carpenters was what he loved the most). Burt said he couldn't work with Karen and Richard Carpenter because of Richard's control of the recording process and Karen...it would have never worked and he knew it and Dionne did too. Don't forget that Burt at this time was high on his celebrity and there was a lot of tension between the star Burt, the star Dionne and the underappreciated Hal...there was tension building in the relationship then before Lost Horizon ever blew. DIonne had grown restless at Scepter; she at times felt somewhat constrained by Bacharach/David and also felt at times that Burt was more concerned about and more focused on his newly found mega-celebrity status than writing songs for her and producing her. And she was probably right because that all began to show in their work around 1970 or so. I'll Never Fall In Love Again was the last truly good album they did and it was rather short on original material...Very Dionne was lackluster except for the skimpy handful of Bacharach/David tunes on that album and her Dionne album (the last for them) was light on original tunes and contained a lot of filler and Bacharach by then had turned over some of the arranging chores to Bob James. That lack of attention to Dionne showed in those two products.

[nikray77]

Read the entire book this past weekend. Not much to add other than...one can't expect that autobiographies will give great amounts of self-reflection. I also agree that bad editing maybe at play in regards to this book. Burt is a musical genius but a horrible husband.
Personally I don't find Burt that reflective regarding his actions he repeats his behavior over and over again especially in relationships no matter if it's romantic or business, that was not a surprise in the least. Yes Burt admits many mistakes in both his personal and business relationships but what really has changed? Other than his brilliant music and his relationship with his children well at least his younger children really not much other is really impressive.

-Burt really is a narcissist and I would guess clearly very immature even at an age one would think he would know better. I am really not sure of some of his reflections regarding any of his relationships because he is so self-involved. The only wives I feel sorry for are Paula and Angie. The other women clearly did not pay attention to what they were gettting into, and knew that they were either the other woman or thought they could change his mind. Clearly there were lots of affairs many more than I think went into this book.

-Burt is clearly still resentful of Dionne ( some of his comments like how he left out how events which were related by him in A&E biography along with Leiber and Stoller when he begged them to let him use Dionne) and it appears a little of Hal and even his mother who does not go to your mother's bedside when she is dying? Odd? I am not sure Burt knows how to change.

-Overall I am glad he wrote his story, and I found it worth the money if no other reason than to enjoy the view behind Burt's life, a real music genius. Something I really give Dionne credit for is if nothing else she has always held Hal David on equal footing of Burt in terms of the music. Generally always adding Hal's name if only Burt's is mentioned in the music. i actually starting to see why I would guess she respected Hal in general for his persona...just guessing.

[Jerry]

OK:

So I've been reading the responses to BB's new autobiography and the majority view seems to be one of disappointment: 'skims the surface', 'not deep enough', 'skips over the creative process' in the making of these songs/records which we all love & cherish so very much. Fair enough-they all valid criticisms.

Keeping in mind, that I've not yet had an opportunity to the book, I would advise some caution on a point which I can see creeping into this discussion...

(Forgive the Caps!)

Although we may feel some proprietary feelings towards Mr. Burt Bacharach WE DO NOT KNOW HIM. Whatever he has chosen to reveal--or, not reveal--IS HIS BUSINESS. We have not walked in shoes, we did not have a daughter with a then-mysterious emotional/neurological disability, which YES, may have made her seem more than a little emotionally-unbalanced. We have not reached the heights in a business (and LOOKED LIKE BURT) which chews up relationships and spits them out. We were not flies on the wall in A TINY CLAUSTROPHOBIC CUBICLE WITH NO WINDOW WITH THE SAME SONGWRITING PARTNER FOR 10-15 years...give-or-take a month, or two.

You have every right to like, or dislike his book, but don't make high-minded value judgments REGARDING WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT OR WRONG ABOUT THE WAY A (and he is) A COMPLETE STRANGER AND THE LIFE CHOICES he has made.

We weren't there and we don't know.

It is also essential to keep in mind that this is a man from a particular Time & Place, where privacy regarding private issues was a given; he is part of the last generation, which, it is safe to say, NOT influenced by Oprah/Dr. Phil/Self-Help/Let-it-all-Hang-out mentality...

And maybe this is a good thing, because evidently, he saved it for his work.

I'm sorry if this sounds as though I am 'correcting' anyone on this listserv, the presence of which, I value greatly. But I just don't wish to see this discussion degenerate into the sort of wholesale character assassination which Ms. Dionne Warwick was subjected to not too long ago.

That is all I guess I have to say. Peace to you all. And thank God for my favorite 50 songs Burt Bacharach wrote with Hal David. And the other 20, or so he did with Elvis Costello. And, maybe the two or three I like with Bob Hilliard. But not the Heartlight thing he did with his ex. :0)

[Jerry]

Oh...one correction: about us 'not knowing' BB...

As we all know, Vincent knows him.

And we are jealous :0)

[nikray77]

@Jerry I think you make some great points and I do think making value judgments are frankly very easy thing to do some years later after Burt's journey. And fans flying miles above the situation looking of his actions appear clear as crystal in some ways. Now for better or worst you are right there have been more than a few posters ( maybe myself included) who feel that we have the right to discuss the most personal things regarding 'stars' without an ounce of care. But I think let's be fair Burt had the right as you said that to tell his story, what do you or even Burt think was going to occur once that was done? Yes it was a different time and place yet expecting every reader not to have an opinion regarding his choices is a little naive in my opinion.

Personally I enjoy autobiographies you get a look into the mind of people telling their own stories but with that you also getting people, critics and even fans making judgments. Some times I actually think fans, the media and even critics take that way too far. I think I have screamed about that several times over the recent past especially when it comes to some of the stuff toss out at Dionne on this site it goes way to far. I don't think Burt has been treated that badly in general, but I agree caution should be the word regarding criticism of Burt.

Bottom line I am glad I both purchased and read the book. I found it entertaining, but I honestly found it sad mostly. Some of the stories of Burt's life and choices are heartbreaking. Some things he had nothing in the world to do with, while others he was steering that wheel. I love his artistry and the beautiful work he has created I wish him nothing but a long and healthy life ahead.

[Jerry]

Thanks for your kind response, Nikray! (BTW, do you take your handle from the great movie director, Nicholas Ray?)

I did not mean to sound as though I were scolding anyone. My intention was simply to keep some perspective on the lifestory of a great artist we, obviously all admire!

Best,
Jerry

[nikray77]

@Jerry, I totally respect your take and I was not the upset with your post in the least. No way I thought you were being scornful. I only replied as a point to say I agree with what you were saying but I also I understand some of the criticisms of Burt's behavior over the years. And No my name actually comes from part of my actual name and good friend from work many years ago who at the time was working as a computer wiz gave me that sign on. Thus I have kept it every since!

Best wishes to you as well, hope to see more of your thoughts. Nikray77

[Jerry]

Same here, Nik!\

All Good Things...

[vincent.cole]

Bonjour Jerry;

I am very flatter that you think that I know Burt!

I have been fortuned enough to attend many of Burt’s Concerts over the years and he has acknowledged me! What I can say about my encounters with meeting Burt after shows is; we both get joy on recognizing each other! Yes I would love to really know the person, but as the statement goes, “Separating of Church and State” is in place. I can handle that, even though it would be really nice to sit down one on one and just talk!

Just an aside: Burt always treats all of his fans as something very special to him! Yes that speaks volumes about the man! Also I am almost finished reading his book, “My Life and Music.” I will make some comments latter on.

Take care mon ami

Vincent

[Jerry]

Hello, Vincent!

I was afraid you may have been offended by my pithy observation, but your witty & charming retort puts me in a somewhat relieved state :0)!!

Yes, as crucial as The Separating of Church & State can be to any relationship between Admirers (Uh, us?) and Sacred Diety (Duh! That's Mr. Burt Bacharach!), I truly believe that most of us here at ListServCentral regard ourselves as just a wee bit closer to Burt than most others!

Thanks for your most kind response!

Bonjour & Bon Chance, Vincent!

All The Best,

Jerry

[ron hertel]

Jerry & Vincent:

I have not yet read "the book"; however I plan to do so. Think most of us who participate in the forum are primarily interested in - and - appreciate the artistic contributions of Burt, Hal and Dionne along with their professional working relationships and just how this great body of work all came together. Unfortunately we did not get much insight into this in Warwick's book and it sounds like the same holds true for Burt's. ....... Jerry you accurately stated above ... "WE DO NOT KNOW HIM" ... and whatever he wishes to address in terms of his personal life is ... "HIS BUSINESS" . ..... Same is true for Dionne and the late Hal David. .......... Like all of us - they have had their share of sadness, misfortune, and made poor decisions in their lives (Hal may be the exception - never heard anything controversial about that man); however, they all continued to keep doing what they do best! .... Burt at "85" and Dionne at "72" continue at a pace that tires me out just reading about their touring schedules what they're doing professionally!