Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

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geoff85
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Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by geoff85 »

If you notice I asked for second not the best. It is not up for debate that Hal David is his best songwriting partner by every metric you could think of. I myself am very partial to his earlier work with Sidney Shaw, especially the songs written for Johnny Mathis which ironically used as the titles for his albums showing Mathis and management knew what was the class of the album. They literally sound like ethereal lush dreamy standards that Frank Sinatra and the greats should have covered numerous times yet they are pretty obscure.

Would love to hear others thoughts.

Johnny Mathis Heavenly

faithfully

I would love to hear demos of these songs or any other covers. Glenn Osser does such beautiful arranging but Id love to hear the original iterations.
Last edited by geoff85 on Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blueonblue
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by blueonblue »

For me it's a "toss-up" between Bob Hilliard and Elvis Costello.

'blue'

geoff85
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by geoff85 »

blueonblue wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:49 pm
For me it's a "toss-up" between Bob Hilliard and Elvis Costello.

'blue'
Bob Hilliard was from the classic years. Sidney Shaw precedes even Hilliard. I do like that Elvis Costello helped Bacharach ressurrect that 60's and 70s sound. I wish he never lost it.

pljms
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by pljms »

Another notable song Bacharach wrote with Sydney Shaw was the far from dreamy and in fact very jazzy Out Of My Continental Mind.


Bob Hilliard would get my nomination as Bacharach's best collaborator after Hal David and out of the twenty-seven songs they wrote together that were published and recorded there's several classics, Any Day Now, Tower Of Strength and Please Stay probably being the cream of the crop. Other gems they collaborated on include Mexican Divorce, Waiting For Charlie To Come Home, The Answer To Everything, Who's Got The Action and the inimitable Three Wheels On My Wagon.
Paul

blueonblue
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by blueonblue »

.....and who could forget ?


'blue'

Blair N. Cummings
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by Blair N. Cummings »

I think it`s very much up for debate (however heretical) that Hal was Burt`s best lyricist - albeit indisputably his most commercially successful. I`ve always thought it regrettable that Burt never had a partner with the sophistication of a Larry Hart or a Cole Porter. I understand that these men were of a prior generation and that the job of the Brill Building crowd was to write songs for teenagers. Nonetheless, it was said by Johnny Mercer(?) that "every love song was written for nineteen-year-olds" and those of his generation didn`t struggle to comprehend the lyrics of the day.
Anyway, this is a long-winded way of nominating "Elvis Costello" as Burt`s best lyricist/partner with Hal a sentimental second. No, "E. C." was not a Larry Hart, but he wrote lyrics of a complexity that recognised that of Burt`s music.
All that said, no one else ever wrote a lyric like "Alfie" - still Bacharach/David`s best.

blueonblue
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by blueonblue »

A special mention for Carole Bayer Sager, if only for her collaboration with Burt on her sublime album 'Sometimes Late At Night'.

geoff85
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by geoff85 »

pljms wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:45 am
Another notable song Bacharach wrote with Sydney Shaw was the far from dreamy and in fact very jazzy Out Of My Continental Mind.


Bob Hilliard would get my nomination as Bacharach's best collaborator after Hal David and out of the twenty-six songs they wrote together that were published and recorded there's several classics, Any Day Now, Tower Of Strength and Please Stay probably being the cream of the crop. Other gems they collaborated on include Mexican Divorce, Waiting For Charlie To Come Home, The Answer To Everything, Who's Got The Action and the inimitable Three Wheels On My Wagon.
Im a bit of a contrarian. I expected most people would say Hilliard mainly just for the volume of work. You cant really go wrong with Burt. If Sidney Shaw had more song with Burt it would be evident. I have actually heard that Lena Horne song before and assumed it was a standard. Every singl Bacharach/Shaw song I have ever heard sounds like a song from the American Standard Songbook. Imagine if Johnny Mathis had done multiple albums produced with Bacharach and Shaw I dont think there would be much debate. Sometimes when you have very little to evaluate and everything is exquisite it is better than having a big catalog and everything is good.

geoff85
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by geoff85 »

blueonblue wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:38 am
.....and who could forget ?


'blue'
Omg so weird you posted this. I've been on a Tami Terrell binge all weekend. What a beauty with an angelic voice but a heartbreakingly sad sad story smh. The song ive been singing all weekend is if this world were mine with Marvin Gaye. Im assuming this is Bob Hilliard.

geoff85
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by geoff85 »

Blair N. Cummings wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:21 am
I think it`s very much up for debate (however heretical) that Hal was Burt`s best lyricist - albeit indisputably his most commercially successful. I`ve always thought it regrettable that Burt never had a partner with the sophistication of a Larry Hart or a Cole Porter. I understand that these men were of a prior generation and that the job of the Brill Building crowd was to write songs for teenagers. Nonetheless, it was said by Johnny Mercer(?) that "every love song was written for nineteen-year-olds" and those of his generation didn`t struggle to comprehend the lyrics of the day.
Anyway, this is a long-winded way of nominating "Elvis Costello" as Burt`s best lyricist/partner with Hal a sentimental second. No, "E. C." was not a Larry Hart, but he wrote lyrics of a complexity that recognised that of Burt`s music.
All that said, no one else ever wrote a lyric like "Alfie" - still Bacharach/David`s best.
Had Burt done more work with Sidney Shaw you would have ended up with more of thoe kinda songs. The Johnny Mathis songs i psoted have a Cole Porter vibe to them. I actually assumed they were remakes when I heard them years ago until I checked the credits. Even the Lena Horne song posted sounds like something out of the classic Big Band jazz era.

geoff85
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by geoff85 »

blueonblue wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:44 am
A special mention for Carole Bayer Sager, if only for her collaboration with Burt on her sublime album 'Sometimes Late At Night'.
I was gonna put a disclaimer that she can't be considered but then i listened to Arthurs Theme and Heartlight and it softened up my heart but Thats What friends are for is kinda annoying lol.

pljms
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by pljms »

If Bob Hilliard hadn't died in 1971 at the uncommonly young age of fifty-three I suppose there was every chance that he would have resumed writing with Bacharach when the latter's partnership with Hal David broke down after the Lost Horizon debacle. I recall Bacharach speaking very warmly about Hilliard after a performance of Mexican Divorce at a London concert a few years ago saying that he liked his company as much as he enjoyed working with him and that he was very fond of most of the material they wrote together. Twenty-seven songs constitutes quite a substantial body of work and there's a few surprises there, songs that I somehow hadn't associated with Bob Hilliard, like the haunting Joanie's Forever. According to the lyrics sung on the 45 from 1960 by Buddy Clinton, when Joanie says "forever" she actually means less than a week and in fact only as long as one love scene. I'm sure that there are plenty of men out there who'd be more than happy with that arrangement, but we won't go into that here.
Paul

geoff85
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Re: Who is Bacharach's second best writing partner?

Post by geoff85 »

pljms wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:52 am
If Bob Hilliard hadn't died in 1971 at the uncommonly young age of fifty-three I suppose there was every chance that he would have resumed writing with Bacharach when the latter's partnership with Hal David broke down after the Lost Horizon debacle. I recall Bacharach speaking very warmly about Hilliard after a performance of Mexican Divorce at a London concert a few years ago saying that he liked his company as much as he enjoyed working with him and that he was very fond of most of the material they wrote together. Twenty-seven songs constitutes quite a substantial body of work and there's a few surprises there, songs that I somehow hadn't associated with Bob Hilliard, like the haunting Joanie's Forever. According to the lyrics sung on the 45 from 1960 by Buddy Clinton, when Joanie says "forever" she actually means less than a week and in fact only as long as one love scene. I'm sure that there are plenty of men out there who'd be more than happy with that arrangement, but we won't go into that here.
Your vid is unavailable. You probably took it from your playlist. You have to link it outside of your playlist. I love Joannies Forever btw. Its more believable when the song is a girl singing about a guy. If a girl is " Joannie" all the guys usually know and it is what it is and nobody is shedding tears over it smh.

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