The Burt Bacharach Discussion Forum

From today's Wall St. Journal: "He Was the Great Connector". (an excerpt)

This op-ed piece describes the life and legacy of American composer Henry Cowell (1897-1965), who influenced many other 20th century American composers, both classical and pop. One of Cowell's students was John Duffy.

"Mr. Duffy recalls Cowell introducing him and fellow student Burt Bacharach to most of the great American composers of the era."

"That Cowell mentored both America's most influential avant-garde composer and one of its most accomplished pop songwriters shows the breadth of his vision. "I got to hear people like Lou Harrison and John Cage," recalls Mr. Bacharach, who was 22 when he began studying with Cowell at the New School, "and went to some of the modern-music concerts he pointed me to." Mr. Bacharach said that before he met Mr. Cowell he was "writing what I thought the market would bear"; after, "there was a certain kind of breaking of the rules and adventurism in my music that wasn't there before. . . . His influence certainly helped later on when I started to push the limits myself. Some seeds were planted."

-Dennis Webb

I have heard, in many, many interview, Burt mention Cowell and Milhaud -- two prominent composer/teachers of his. They both were obviously very important influences on Burt. Having said that, let's not forget that both those teachers had hundreds of students over the years, so Burt obviously had his own genius all along. Let's just say that Cowell and Milhaud watered the flower, so to speak.

Henry Cowell,Darius Milhaud,B.Martinu have been fundamental, in Burt's Music scholarship and sensitivity. I think that he has in his musical culture the best heritage of the 20th century(Gershwin,Cole Porter,Berlin, Kurt Weill and also cool Jaaz and euoropean, avant guard:Such as Satie, Ravel, and all the best he could filter though the Beat experience in the '60's;
not forgetting the influence Bossa Nova and people like Antonio Carlos Jobim, Vincius De Moraes or Chico Buarque De Hollanda have influenced and uncosciously inspired Burt while composing.

Burt has mentioned on several occasions, this beautiful piece of music, as one of his main influences.........


"blue"

I have also heard and read Burt's assertion that Ravel and Debussy influenced him, but my ears have never been able to identify any such influence in his compositions. Can anyone here point to particular instances of this influence in Burt's music?

-Dennis Webb

Hi,
I believe Burt's resemblance to Ravel is in the orchestration...the orchestration being similar to Ravel when Burt Doubles notes in the strings, providing "identities" or octaves...sounds that melt into each other, mirroring certain notes of the chord so that the texture becomes clear , like glass...
And for Debussy, well, it would be in Burt's piano parts.....Erik Satie as well, pianistically.
examples? Pavanne for a Dead Princess(Strings)....Claire De Lune, etc.(Piano)

Burt examples : string parts for Look of Love;This Guy's In Love With YOu..Alpert version)
(string doublings)The Brass on This Guys(Burt version, Reminiscent of Ravel, during the main strain....(I want your love,...need Your love)
Daphne and Chloe(Ravel- w.w. parts on Some of the Casino Royale Cues...that slow dreamy
cue with the muted strings-(Sir James Trip To Find Mata?)
Steveo

I was talking to my wife about Nadia Boulanger when I decided to seek her at Wikipedia. Both in the Portuguese-language wiki, which lists fewer names, and in the English-language wiki, Burt is menitoned as one of her students.
I had never heard about that. Can anyone say something that would help confirm or deny this?

Someone I though studied with her was Cole Porter. Saw no mention of him.

Among the Brazilians, Egberto Gismonti. (I once posted a link to Pendulo, on YouTube. As a kid, I thought it was a Bacharach song.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_st ... _Boulanger

1) We talked about Bacharach as an arranger. I always found it awfully important that when I would listen to Burt, no matter who influenced him, whatever I was listening to was that way because he wanted it that way. (There surely are time constraints, among others, and he is not too happy himself with how Dionne's I Say A Little Prayer and the album Woman, for instance, came out.)

I feel somewhat uncomfortable when I don't know if what I am listened to was in the mind of the composer or is the way it is largely because of the orchetrator. I never had to think about that when I listened to Burt. So I was always astonished at the Bacharach genius.

1') Gershwin is another musical idol I have. I think that (what I've always knew as) his output is simply mind boggling. His early death is to me one of the major natural disasters in history. The following link will allow you to scroll down to Contents and click on the link to chapter 3: Musical Influences. The text goes also into his work as an orchestrator and some controversies surrounding authorship.
http://books.google.com.br/books?id=EoK ... q=&f=false

2) Also... Is Burt under a discernible influence in this Monterey Peninsula recording? (I am thinking especially the part that starts at 1:50.)
http://www.john-gates.com/media/audio1.html

3) I added a link to a Jimmy Webb interview in Burt's Wikipedia entry. Thanks to whoever brought that interview to our attention a while ago. I think Burt's entry is very weak. It needs major improvements...