Discussion Board is STale

[BachtoBacharach]

Warwick has recorded about 120 Bacharach tunes which have been released and possibly a handful more which were not released. Bacharach has written probably 5 times that number of tunes, scores, etc...and many have never been recorded...would be fascinating to see what Bacharach and David have tucked back in boxes somewhere! As for Dionne...she got mostly the creme of the crop...Bacharach saw to that.

[ron hertel]

BachtoBacharach:

Thanks for doing the math - I was just about to start counting when I saw your post! The "120" figure sounds about right. I too believe that Dionne was the recipient of most of "the best"; however there are some that I wish she had recorded even though they would have been covers - example - Dionne's interpretation of Alfie was the 40th or so cover of that song and became the "definitive recording" .... I'll address the songs I wish she had recorded in a future post. She may have recorded a number of these and they could be "lurking in the vaults" until someone like David Nathan goes after them someday.

pljms:

I concur with your contention that the love for those "2nd division" songs never diminishes. It would take an extensive box set for them to ever be released in a compilation and that would unlikely sell since most of us loyal followers have taken advantage of the remastered re-issues of those long ago released albums. As stated before - concerts by both Burt and Dionne MUST focus on the commercially successful material or attendance at their performances will drop dramatically. This applies to any artist with a large body of work. While I will continue to support both Bacharach and Warwick as long as they perform in concert - I'm resigned to the fact that their repertoire will change very little. Each time I attend a concert I am inspired to go home and listen to the "2nd division" stuff that is rarely - if ever - part of the show!

[BachtoBacharach]

Interesting to note that in several concerts in Britain and the US in about 2004-2005 Dionne completely revamped the format of her concerts for some appearances and sang many of the lesser known hits she had with Bacharach and some gospel numbers. One such concert was heard on the BBC. Warwick sang Here I Am, The April Fools, and a handful of others she has rarely performed in concert. It was quite a treat. Those appearances had to so refreshing to Dionne, like Burt, must do her "greatest hits" or folks won't attend and to hear something a little different was also refreshing to her fans. I totally agree that I would have loved to hear Dionne do Everybody's Out of Town (she did the original recording according to David Nathan) but it has never sufaced in the vaults although the empty tape box has. I would love to heard Dionne do Come and Get Me and Windows and Doors, and also This House is Empty Now. Dionne had planned many years ago (about 1995 or so?) to mine the Bacharach catalog for little known tunes she loved but never recorded (Mexican Divorce was one she considered recording for many years; she provided the backing vocals on the Drifters cuts of the tune as everyone here probably knows) and what a great project it would have been. But she released her "remakes" of her original hits with Bacharach which in my opinon were mostly stale and uninspiring. I am so glad she got off that bandwagon as a Duets II with male vocal partners was planned but was scrapped by Concored when the Duets I project fell flat. I have never heard such a poorly arranged and recorded CD with Dionne's name attached to it and it was such a letdown. It was produced by her son Damon Elliott and was done on the cheap and it showed. Maybe before Bacharach and Warwick leave us, they will get together for some new tunes and revisit some of the old tunes they wanted to record together but never did. It might sell as well as anything else in that genre does.

[nymusicalsguy]

This seems to be the year of the Box Set; deluxe editions have come (or are on the way) from artists as diverse as The Beatles, Rod Stewart, Genesis, Big Star, John Mellencamp, Joni Mitchell, Hall and Oates, Dolly Parton and Frank Sinatra. Many of these have been from our friends at Rhino. IBox sets seem to be thriving in a tough retail economy because of what they can offer that a download can't -- a lavish book and packaging, maybe a DVD, etc. etc. I've long maintained that the best way to celebrate Warwick's career would be a box set encompassing the entirety of her recorded work with Bacharach, including those unreleased songs we all know about. These box sets often force the music press to re-evaluate the career of the subject artist; Rhino's THE LOOK OF LOVE box is generally regarded as having given Burt's career a resurgence. Such a box would, once and for all, wipe away any memories of the Psychic Friends Network and any late period projects which didn't come off as well as Dionne might have hoped, and remind folks of why she may have been the finest vocalist of the 1960s, bar none, and a legend who continues to inspire. Dionne has nothing to answer for, but I'm firm in my belief that The Complete Dionne Sings Bacharach box would remind anyone who'd forgotten just how big a contribution this gent and his muse have made to popular music and culture. Is anybody out there listening?

[BachtoBacharach]

Let's hope that David Nathan can get a Dionne box set in the works. It would be awesome. I totally agree that so many folks don't know and are astounded to find out Dionne was second to only Aretha as the female artist with the most chart hits...in fact, I believe she is #10 in Billboard's all time charting artists. She has 56 chart hits to her credit. Most folks don't even know this and a box set would wipe away the "joke" that Dionne had become due to her association with the PFN. That lapse in her usually impeccible judgment toward her career and the squandering of her good name and reputation for lucre during that period was somewhat shocking and the effects remain. I believe there is a whole new generation out there waiting to discover what astounding music Bacharach/Warwick/David put out in the 60s and early 70s...Steven Holden, the respected music critic, places their music on par with the Beatles. Their influence was tremendous...everyone was trying emulate the Bacharach/Warwick sound then. And, most artists from that era regard Dionne and her work with Bacharach as a huge and important influence; folks like Brian Wilson, Carlos Santana, Aretha Franklin, Linda Ronstadt, Alice Cooper, Donald Fagin, and even Janis Joplin was a Warwick fan. She was a singer's singer. A BBC documentary postulated that Dionne was the best pop singer, perhaps even better than Sinatra. Well, I believe they were both gifted and it's comparing apples with oranges because Dionne wasn't really a "pop" singer, but I think Europeans do generally acknowledge Warwick's huge influence, especially on British female artists in the 60s like, Dusty, Petula, Cilla, etc. I really believe Warwick and Bacharach's influence WAS and IS way up there toward the top. It's too bad that the wonderful Warwick/Bacharach catalog as posted by Dibotis has been removed by Warners from YouTube...it was a box set! I believe before the tunes were removed there were about 130 posted there and there was some extremely rare stuff. David Nathan where are you??? We need you!

[ron hertel]

Like so many others - I was a Bacharach/Warwick fan before I even knew they existed. When I put two and two together and learned who they were - i was convinced that I had to be their #1 admirer - that is until I became acquainted with this forum! While agreeing with all the superlatives surrounding this this legendary duo - the commercial success of a "definitive Warwick box set" would depend largely on an effective marketing effort to let people know just who they are. Like me back in the 60's - many who know and love their work can not identify them. At virtually every Bacharach or Warwick concert I attend I hear concert goers (usually there at the urging of fans like us) repeatedly whisper something to the effect ........ "I didn't know he wrote that or she sang that"........ In discussing my admiration for Burt and Dionne with those who are just vaguely familiar with their names - I generally have to mention "That's What Friends Are For", "Say A Little Prayer", "San Jose", "What The World Needs Now" and sometimes even have to resort to the dreaded "PFN bomb" - "Psychic Friends Network" - YIKES! - I hate to bring that up!

In addition to including the Bacharach/David/Warwick tracks - a bonus disk or two with some selected works from Dionne's Warner and Arista catalogs including his collaborations with Carole Bayer Sager could enhance the appeal. I also would not mind seeing some of the miscellaneous stuff included such as her recording of the Love Boat theme (season 9), He's Moving On" from "The Love Machine" and the theme song for "Lifestyles Of The Rich And Famous" television series. Whether or not you like these recordings - Dionne's voice was in top form when they were recorded. That old catch phrase "Inimitable" still applies when trying to characterize her voice.

While such a project would today involve a myriad of legal issues - it might be possible down the road. As nymusicalsguy stated: "Is anybody out there listening?" - AND - quoting BachtoBacharach "David Nathan where are you??? We need you!"

[Bruce Bernard Williams]

I agree with you Ron that us fans would love to see all of the other songs Dionne has done such as: the two songs from the Dave Clark project "Time"; the theme song from the movie "The Seduction"; The theme song from "Valley Of The Dolls II". I'm sure there are other rarities that I have left out, but I'd love to have these recordings on a box-set along with all of the unreleased songs that are just laying there in the vaults!

[ron hertel]

Bruce Bernard Williams:

I'm not familiar with the Dave Clark project: however, I neglected to mention a couple of other Warwick favorites that most people are totally UNAWARE of: "In Love Alone" which is only available on Richard Carpenter's 1987 solo album "TIME" along with Dusty Springfield's great recording of "Something In Your Eyes". I have a copy of the vinyl album and recently saw a very rare CD release of the "TIME" album offered on the Music Stack website at prices ranging between $100.00 to $500.00. Another very powerful " hidden gem" Warwick recording is a duet she did with Chuck Jackson entitled - "If I Let Myself Go' - recorded and released as a single back in the late 90"s. That song received a great review from Billboard Magazine - and - to the best of my knowledge is available only on Chuck Jackson's 1998 CD "I'll Never Get Over You". Like so many others - this was just overlooked and became lost in the shuffle of mostly forgettable music.

[ron hertel]

For a musical and visual treat - go to Chuck Jackson's website: http://www.chuckjackson.org and click on his links page - Chuck and Dionne's music video of the above mentioned "If I let Myself Go" is at the top of the links page!

[BachtoBacharach]

And to put this whole Dionne/Burt discussion in context with the times, I believe the same phenom is happening to any artist of the 60s generation if they aren't Elvis, The Beatles or The Rolling Stones. Many young folks don't know who, for example, Aretha is but know her songs. And of the younger folks who do know who Aretha is, most have only a knowledge of a handful of tunes she made famous. Even Diana Ross is virtually unknown among younger folks except for the Supremes...most stations these days rarely play her solo hits that were huge in the 70s. We are talking top tier artists here but unless they are Beatles. Presley, or Stones, they become more unknown as time goes on but their music remains known. Dionne does have the good fortune to be known for 'That's What Friends Are For" which remains to this day a friendship anthem of sorts for even the current crop of kids coming up...no such recording exists for Ross and for Franklin it's probably "Respect". Beyond those though, unless they get curious, few discover what lies in wait for them should they decide to dig. A box set would bring Dionne back into the minds of folks who have never forgotten those Bacharach/David and other tunes she made famous but who have only a vague recollection of who she is. What a body of superb work they will discover.

[BachtoBacharach]

Another point is the same thing happens to artists of previous generations...especially in the 30s-50s...folks like Dinah Shore, The McGuire Sisters, Teresa Brewer, Kay Starr, Johnny Ray, etc. all of whom get little to no airplay on oldies radio unlike their more "rock and roll and R & B oriented" contemporaries like Fats Domino, Dion, The Comets, Chuck Berry etc. But, I believe because of the whole atmosphere and climate of sixties music and exposure on television and oldies radio, these 60s artists remain fairly well known when compared to those from the 30s-50s which a few notable exceptions like Sinatra, Crosby, etc. And, it does surprise me how some very young folks are familiar with Dionne Warwick, Aretha Frankin, The Supremes, etc. I would say media exposure and the culture of the sixties being so legendary and the massive societal changes set to that soundtrack is partially responsible for the music of that decade not fading from memory nearly as quickly as some of the great stuff from the 30s-50s has.

[Sara D]

Well, the word 'stale' with a capital t certainly seems to have inspired everyone. The point made about how it's easy to tire of the big hits while retaining a love for the so-called '2nd division' songs is something I can relate to totally, and not just with Burt's songs. I suppose because they were so obviously influenced by BB, Tony Hatch, Jimmy Webb and Laura Nyro often get mentioned on these pages, but what about the Beatles, or more to the point Lennon and McCartney? Most of my favourites of theirs were the non-singles, the album tracks, the b-sides. Concentrating on their earlier years and in something like chronological order they would be: 'This Boy', 'There's a Place', 'All My Loving', 'It Wont be Long', 'All I've Got to Do', 'I Should Have Known Better', 'If I Fell', 'Im Happy Just to Dance with You', 'No Reply' (my particular fave), 'You've got to Hide your Love Away', 'I've Just Seen a Face', 'Norwegian Wood', 'In My Life', 'Nowhere Man', 'Got to Get You into My Life' and 'Here There and Everywhere'. I'm aware that one or two of those were put out as singles in the States and were hits but all these remarkable songs were essentially album tracks. It's amazing that 'All My Loving' was never issued as a single -just shows how spoiled for choice they were. And 'No Reply' too, which would have been first choice for a single by any other band/artist.

[pljms]

Yes, as Bacharach once said himself, "You just have to love the Beatles". After Bacharach, Lennon & McCartney are my favourite songwriters of the past 40 years. I too have a preference for the earlier material from the time when they actually wrote together. I'm less keen on the material from Sgt Pepper onwards, when they became more self-conscious and when the use of certain substances was obviously affecting their craft.

[steveo_1965]

yeah, I love the early "b" sides of the fab four....fun stuff...

[GehVorbei]

I actually count about 110 Bacharach songs that Dionne has recorded and that have been released in one way or another. About 95 in their glory days in the 60s and early 70s and just about 15 since they reunited in the 80s.

I think even their collective body of work from the 80s and 90s makes for interesting compilation: Finders Of Lost Love; Extravagant Gestures; Captives Of The Heart; On My Way; TWFAF; Love Power; Sunny Weather Lover; Heartbreak of Love; Take Good Care Of You And Me...

I'm still waiting for Dionne's original version of "On My Own" to be finally released from the Arista vaults.